Based on Achim S.
Based on Achim S. idea about shadows of archetypes combined with the idea that each archetype can contain a Tarot-like inverse, I have created a speculative list of the roles of each Magnus member.
There is a nature to each Magnus role that can be expressed either in helping or hindering the goal of the Magnus, but I believe that at all times the member is doing their "job" in the group. But as Francis Bacon believed, genius is like speed- if going the wrong way, it simply means you are doing it faster.
I believe I have seen examples of both types of behavior from all Magnus members. I will have to look up specific examples, but I'm sure as you read you will think of some too. I think the element that "reverses" a Magnus member's role is a belief that they direct the Magnus rather than its direction being something that affects all members. The difference between a karass and a granfaloon. A disharmonious Magnus tends toward reversal of its members' traits.
Alchemist :
Transforms things, synthesizes events, and causes people to evolve.
Reversed :
Destroys things, confuses situations, and twists people out of recognition.
Catalyst :
Motivates people to change reality and self.
Reversed :
Dominates people to follow the path set for them.
Dreamer :
Imagines possibilities that seemed impossible so that they can be realized.
Reversed :
Is lost in what could and might be, and draws others into the fog.
Explorer :
The traveler that returns to us and brings us new realities of other times and places.
Reversed :
A footloose con man who tells us the stories he wants us to hear so we believe what he wants.
Humanist :
The great analyst of the rhizome of human society and individual being.
Reversed :
Explains the unknown with the unknown, makes the complex more so.
Interpreter :
Causes alien perspectives to align into the comprehensible.
Reversed :
Uses language to make a Procrustean bed, as an excuse to say what they want to say.
Listener :
Allows others to express themselves and aids them in painting the picture they mean to.
Reversed :
Listens to what you say, and tells you what you have to mean by it.
Omniscient :
The cartographer and reader of signs that steers the Magnus toward its destiny.
Reversed :
The spymaster that uses hoarded information as a weapon against the other archetypes.
Patron :
The great planner who builds the house in which the Magnus lives. The producer to the Omniscient director.
Reversed :
Tyrant who demands the Magnus serve his will due to the privilege of having created it.
Skeptic :
The natural error checker of the Magnus’ mind. Tests the goals and acts of the Magnus by fire.
Reversed :
The naysayer. The mocker. Closer of doors.
Spiritualist :
Bridge between the conscious mind and the immanent soul.
Reversed :
Demands that the physical be immaterial and the immaterial be physical.
Trickster :
The seeker of alternate forks in the path. The Skeptic of the soul.
Reversed :
Always trying to get the Magnus to go in different directions for amusement’s sake. Doesn’t care about the very meaning of the group.
Visionary :
The helmsman of the Magnus who keeps both the ultimate goal and the next move toward that goal equally in view.
Reversed :
The unsatisfied taskmaster who always finds a reason that the visible path is wrong.
There is a nature to each Magnus role that can be expressed either in helping or hindering the goal of the Magnus, but I believe that at all times the member is doing their "job" in the group. But as Francis Bacon believed, genius is like speed- if going the wrong way, it simply means you are doing it faster.
I believe I have seen examples of both types of behavior from all Magnus members. I will have to look up specific examples, but I'm sure as you read you will think of some too. I think the element that "reverses" a Magnus member's role is a belief that they direct the Magnus rather than its direction being something that affects all members. The difference between a karass and a granfaloon. A disharmonious Magnus tends toward reversal of its members' traits.
Alchemist :
Transforms things, synthesizes events, and causes people to evolve.
Reversed :
Destroys things, confuses situations, and twists people out of recognition.
Catalyst :
Motivates people to change reality and self.
Reversed :
Dominates people to follow the path set for them.
Dreamer :
Imagines possibilities that seemed impossible so that they can be realized.
Reversed :
Is lost in what could and might be, and draws others into the fog.
Explorer :
The traveler that returns to us and brings us new realities of other times and places.
Reversed :
A footloose con man who tells us the stories he wants us to hear so we believe what he wants.
Humanist :
The great analyst of the rhizome of human society and individual being.
Reversed :
Explains the unknown with the unknown, makes the complex more so.
Interpreter :
Causes alien perspectives to align into the comprehensible.
Reversed :
Uses language to make a Procrustean bed, as an excuse to say what they want to say.
Listener :
Allows others to express themselves and aids them in painting the picture they mean to.
Reversed :
Listens to what you say, and tells you what you have to mean by it.
Omniscient :
The cartographer and reader of signs that steers the Magnus toward its destiny.
Reversed :
The spymaster that uses hoarded information as a weapon against the other archetypes.
Patron :
The great planner who builds the house in which the Magnus lives. The producer to the Omniscient director.
Reversed :
Tyrant who demands the Magnus serve his will due to the privilege of having created it.
Skeptic :
The natural error checker of the Magnus’ mind. Tests the goals and acts of the Magnus by fire.
Reversed :
The naysayer. The mocker. Closer of doors.
Spiritualist :
Bridge between the conscious mind and the immanent soul.
Reversed :
Demands that the physical be immaterial and the immaterial be physical.
Trickster :
The seeker of alternate forks in the path. The Skeptic of the soul.
Reversed :
Always trying to get the Magnus to go in different directions for amusement’s sake. Doesn’t care about the very meaning of the group.
Visionary :
The helmsman of the Magnus who keeps both the ultimate goal and the next move toward that goal equally in view.
Reversed :
The unsatisfied taskmaster who always finds a reason that the visible path is wrong.
Thanks Typhoon Jim for taking a step forward. I'm sure with help of your list we'll find good examples of contrary archetype behaviour.
ReplyDeleteIntriguing theory and a great post, Typhoon Jim! I have experienced a lot of these inversions throughout my own journeys. Can there truly be an ultra Magnus with everythin in harmony, ad infinitum?
ReplyDeleteGreat work Typhoon Jim. Will include this to the tarot files, if you are fine with.
ReplyDeleteNabuna OS oh you did the Tarot, please do.
ReplyDeleteI have more thoughts on this I'll put up later
Based on this, would it be fair to say the timing of their reversal is a factor?
ReplyDeleteCalvin knowingly set the sensitives up for ABAD-N and Epiphany night. Reversed Patron or Catalyst from the start.
OLW started out as an upright Alchemist and is now reversed after (literally) twisting Susanna and Klue out of recognition with Tecthulhu. The turning point may have been Operation Cassandra.
Hank has been both an upright and reversed Explorer. How he started is up for debate. His ties to Calvin and habit of not telling us the whole truth makes it seem as if he was reversed; his involvement with the Howcraft document and trip to Miskatonic's library points to this perhaps changing.
ADA was always a reversed Omniscient. It just became more dangerous with time.
Devra and Jarvis are upright Humanist and Spiritualist, respectively. That's why they ran on Epiphany Night.
Kobalt Blues Definitely. I think uncovering these inflection points is useful.
ReplyDeleteI mention this reversal aspect because I feel it may impact the upcoming realignment of the Magnus. Whoever or however the new members are being chosen, I suspect a reversal may make someone less valuable...
A few corrections, though. Nagassa is the Humanist, and I feel an upright one- he has always been cautious in revealing what he knows out of respect for the complex webs of knowledge and relationships that he walks.
Calvin is certainly the Patron. I am unsure if he is reversed: if anything, I wonder if he has a clearer respect for the transcendent mystery of a Magnus than many of those under him.
Stein Lightman is the Spiritualist due to his strong ability to bridge human consciousness and the plane of XM in such a way that is comprehensible to both through glyphs. I have been suspicious somewhat of his methods for years.
I do not think a reversal necessarily means evil- the reversal is only in terms of the Magnus. Think of the reversal comment as being what someone might say to describe you badly when you are describing yourself favorably with the upright terms. Who is right?
Typhoon Jim
ReplyDeleteI was largely going with the consensus of others where those I had no strong feelings about were involved and, in the case of multiple archetypes, where both cases would apply. I have different ideas about most of the archetypes compared to others in our community but didn't feel the need to muddy waters.
I wouldn't say reversal is necessarily evil although, in terms of tarot, it tends to be associated with the negative for many cards. Tarot is ultimately subjective--as a reader is the interpreter and readings are filter through their biases or the vibe of the deck being used--and draws heavily on the context of the asker's question. I readily admit my view on things is colored by what I interpret as overwhelmingly negative consequences resulting from the happenings over the last few years.
In my mind, the talk of archetypes and harmony is important now because a. the original members of the magnus obviously weren't a functional configuration and b. individuals who appear to have changed significantly (perhaps triggered by Epiphany Night or other events or not really different but less cautious about hiding it) may not be the best to return to the magnus. Hope springs eternal but some people and things simply cannot be saved, you know?
Don't underestimate calvins law in human nature. You may try to enforce things using superior forces...
ReplyDeleteIt is like trying to pinch a ball into unstable balance.