The Shaper/N'zeer Distinction
The Shaper/N'zeer Distinction
I see the Shaper/N'zeer distinction as this.
The Shapers uplift humanity in a collective manner. Contact with Shapers brings forth new paradigms of civilization that will advance humanity in a direction of strength. They are actively interested in human progress because it is a stark contrast to the descent into entropy evident in the universe. (The Jarvis Manifesto)
Their signature method is Exotic Matter, which offers holistic advancement to societies who build portals. Exotic Matter is the force that one senses at ancient power spots of human construction. Contact with XM brings the fruit of increasing civilizational complexity and surplus. (Hank Johnson's Nomad Hypothesis)
They oppose the N'zeer because exposure to the N'zeer leads to a degeneration of society and a loss of progress. The Shapers find flaws and imperfection to be beautiful, as they see in human life the one source of the Lucretian clinamen, the element of indeterminacy and unexpected beauty.
The Shaper goal is that humanity be organized into civilizations with more complex ideas and structure, that can learn from and build upon the past.
What the Shapers gain in this bargain is access to more interesting human mind patterns.
The N'zeer uplift humanity in an individual fashion. They are a source of radical power for those that find it. Their interest in overall human progress seems limited or nonexistent, however those that seek their power believe that in it lies the key to greater understanding of the universe.
Their signature method is Chaotic Matter, which is found in dark, chthonic places that humanity seeks for personal gain. Chaotic Matter is a source of great personal power: in its raw form, it can transmute base metal to gold, and twist complex living things into devolved versions. (Luizi Crater, Sheba/Solomon)
They oppose the Shapers because they see the Shapers as those who promulgate a lie: that the universe is not deterministic. The N'zeer truth is that reality is binary, and built around power. Struggle is intimately connected with the N'zeer worldview.
The N'zeer goal is a simplified humanity in smaller groups that struggle with one another, as this is seen to be the greatest concentration of power for individuals.
What the N'zeer gain in this bargain is a return to a foothold in the physical human realm. The Shaper portal network was designed to keep them out of physical reality so that humans would experience reason internally as opposed to experiencing Julian Jaynes hallucinations.
The cycle of Shaper and N'zeer influence
It is possible that the cycle of Shaper and N'zeer influence is, at its heart, the shift between rising and falling civilizations. The Shaper influence brings humanity in more complex directions, whereas the N'zeer influence tempts individual humans to struggle for more power.
The expulsion of the N'zeer from the physical realm led to less and less direct contact with gods as we know them. What we know as the modern mind came from the Shaper influence, that we hear the dictates of our inner voice as they were our own and believe that reason is something part of us rather than a voice speaking to us.
Upon the conquest of a city in the ancient world, an invading force would carry away the great statue of that city's god, and it was believed that this was the actual, physical god itself. It was believed that the city and civilization could not rise again unless the god were reclaimed. I think this is itself a remnant of the interplay of small civilizations with pre-expulsion N'zeer contact.
I see the Shaper/N'zeer distinction as this.
The Shapers uplift humanity in a collective manner. Contact with Shapers brings forth new paradigms of civilization that will advance humanity in a direction of strength. They are actively interested in human progress because it is a stark contrast to the descent into entropy evident in the universe. (The Jarvis Manifesto)
Their signature method is Exotic Matter, which offers holistic advancement to societies who build portals. Exotic Matter is the force that one senses at ancient power spots of human construction. Contact with XM brings the fruit of increasing civilizational complexity and surplus. (Hank Johnson's Nomad Hypothesis)
They oppose the N'zeer because exposure to the N'zeer leads to a degeneration of society and a loss of progress. The Shapers find flaws and imperfection to be beautiful, as they see in human life the one source of the Lucretian clinamen, the element of indeterminacy and unexpected beauty.
The Shaper goal is that humanity be organized into civilizations with more complex ideas and structure, that can learn from and build upon the past.
What the Shapers gain in this bargain is access to more interesting human mind patterns.
The N'zeer uplift humanity in an individual fashion. They are a source of radical power for those that find it. Their interest in overall human progress seems limited or nonexistent, however those that seek their power believe that in it lies the key to greater understanding of the universe.
Their signature method is Chaotic Matter, which is found in dark, chthonic places that humanity seeks for personal gain. Chaotic Matter is a source of great personal power: in its raw form, it can transmute base metal to gold, and twist complex living things into devolved versions. (Luizi Crater, Sheba/Solomon)
They oppose the Shapers because they see the Shapers as those who promulgate a lie: that the universe is not deterministic. The N'zeer truth is that reality is binary, and built around power. Struggle is intimately connected with the N'zeer worldview.
The N'zeer goal is a simplified humanity in smaller groups that struggle with one another, as this is seen to be the greatest concentration of power for individuals.
What the N'zeer gain in this bargain is a return to a foothold in the physical human realm. The Shaper portal network was designed to keep them out of physical reality so that humans would experience reason internally as opposed to experiencing Julian Jaynes hallucinations.
The cycle of Shaper and N'zeer influence
It is possible that the cycle of Shaper and N'zeer influence is, at its heart, the shift between rising and falling civilizations. The Shaper influence brings humanity in more complex directions, whereas the N'zeer influence tempts individual humans to struggle for more power.
The expulsion of the N'zeer from the physical realm led to less and less direct contact with gods as we know them. What we know as the modern mind came from the Shaper influence, that we hear the dictates of our inner voice as they were our own and believe that reason is something part of us rather than a voice speaking to us.
Upon the conquest of a city in the ancient world, an invading force would carry away the great statue of that city's god, and it was believed that this was the actual, physical god itself. It was believed that the city and civilization could not rise again unless the god were reclaimed. I think this is itself a remnant of the interplay of small civilizations with pre-expulsion N'zeer contact.
I like this assessment. I can see parallels with the factions as well
ReplyDeleteWhy does this make me think of the old TV Show, Babylon 5 and the struggle between the Vorlons and the Shadows?
ReplyDeleteIt is important to remember that neither side is inherently orderly or chaotic. The N'zeer may seem chaotic, but their interest is primarily in a sort of self-determining order that is endlessly predictable and logical. The Shaper ideal is in an order created by a holistic awareness, but the chaotic human element is paramount to their interest. This is why multiple copies of the same pattern are interesting: I think that Jarvis' Shaper contacts with human patterns are an endless set of "what-ifs" played out over and over. This is the source of the timeless nature of perception experienced by powerful XM sensitives- the idea that possibilities may be seen all at once.
ReplyDeleteI think they both have the same goals, just a different timeline to reach those goals. I suspect the N'zeer want to rapidly uplift humanity while the Shapers want to do it gradually.
ReplyDelete.
ReplyDeleteThomas Arteaga I think that contact with Shapers or N'zeer is not necessary and rare.
ReplyDeleteShaper influence is the benefits of greater complexity that lead to ideals such as Hellenism eventually leading to the Pax Romana, and the Enlightenment that in time created the American age.
N'zeer influence is the turning point that leads to the end of these civilizations, which for all their advancement and greatness are also sources of oppression of the strong individual.
But you don't have to be talking to Shapers or N'zeer in order to experience their influence, and Shapers and N'zeer are not your friends. The only people that talk about these forces as "their friends" are those who are so infused with their influence as to have lost themselves. Shapers and N'zeer want what they want, and humans benefit only incidentally.
Bacon Ator These themes do recur.
ReplyDeleteDrew Dondero My feeling is that Abaddon is the turning point of conflict between Shaper and N'zeer that is no longer covert. Humanity's existence and prosperity may be revealed as incidental. Think of it like this: we don't care so much for the condition of our intestinal bacteria because we feel deep concern for their well-being and existential telos, we do it because we like to eat.
ReplyDeleteSarah Rosen ?
ReplyDeleteI like making "our" alien force the yin to your yang. Bad guys always have cooler weapons, even if they do lose sometimes. For me, it is all about the utter annihilation of all things ENL.
ReplyDeleteTyphoon Jim Roland Jarvis called the Shapers "friends."
ReplyDeleteTyphoon Jim You don't want me to comment on the content of this thread. I just put a place holder so that I would see what other comments were made.
ReplyDeleteRobert Clemo Correct. He was also a dead person at that point.
ReplyDeleteRobert Clemo I like to think of it as Cthulhu vs. Coolthulhu. Which is which? Well, let me tell you...
ReplyDeleteTyphoon Jim Thing about us is, our characters aren't dead. Ever.
ReplyDeleteRobert Clemo What do you mean?
ReplyDeleteA key tool of the shapers, we're told, is an inner voice that can in the right circumstances be guided externally. John Doe and Roland Jarvis show 2 distinct responses one can have to the same stimulus.
ReplyDeleteIf ADA is, as might be inferred from compatibility with the Persepolis terminal, a N'Zeer instrument then how does the mind implant used on Klue relate to that inner voice? Same tool used for different goals? Different tools built on similar principals (perhaps the root glyph receptors in our minds)? What do the tools tell us about the craftsmen?
Mike Wissinger I think it is the strongest sign of exactly when the Nzeer were banished. Julian Jaynes theorized that true introspective consciousness developed late in human time, and that the development of oracles and trances were a sign of its advent. This is a sign of a move from more overt contact between gods and humans to the more insidious "mind hacking" style of the Shapers.
ReplyDeleteThe mind implantation process may be a move to harden human beings against such remote intervention by installing a sort of internal daimon that is directly conversed with. This is itself problematic.
Typhoon Jim I honestly would love to converse with you about this topic more in depth.
ReplyDeleteThe way the Shapers and the N'Zeer influence us as a race is very interesting to me.
Typhoon Jim Do you believe that it is impossible to unite the opposites?
ReplyDeleteGab Riel The story is called Ingress, after all. And the first thing we learned, after that it was time to move, was that they aren't coming, they're already here.
ReplyDeleteThis is true of both Shapers and N'zeer in one way or another.
Shapers have been here for a very, very long time, and their advent is related to the rise of unified human consciousness and therefore a disconnection of direct contact between humans and gods. A war between older and younger gods is a common feature of ancient writings.
One illustrative element can be found in Vedic texts, wherein the familiar term "deva" is used to describe a benevolent deity, and "asura" to describe a dangerous one. However, in the earliest Vedic texts we find that "asura" is used to describe all beings of that caliber. This might point to a split that is less of a broad rift than it may appear from this side.
So, in short, this is certainly a possibility. In order to ascertain the value of speculation in this direction, we would need more information about the nature of the conflict. I feel I have something of a limited grasp on the goals of each side, but this is fragmentary. Perhaps once we know what Abaddon is, we will have a better handle on it.
Typhoon Jim I agree.
ReplyDeleteBrowsing Wikipedia I found:
In his philosophy, Hegel ventured to describe quite a few cases of "unity of opposites", including the concepts of Finite and Infinite, Force and Matter, Identity and Difference, Positive and Negative, Form and Content, Chance and Necessity, Cause and effect, Freedom and Necessity, Subjectivity and Objectivity, Means and Ends, Subject and Object, and Abstract and Concrete.
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So, to put it short, out of all these, are you saying that the Shaper / N'zeer dichotomy best reflects the Identity / Difference dichotomy?
Gab Riel Many of these dichotomies are represented between the two, but that is an appropriate comparison.
ReplyDeleteTyphoon Jim many indeed.
ReplyDeleteGab Riel So, anyway. If you want the deep, subjective dive into my feelings on the matter, I believe that the fundamental conflict is between Parmenides' forms of aletheia and doxa, what Philip K Dick called Type I and Type II hyperuniverses.
ReplyDeleteThe Type I hyperuniverse is the living, volitional Ultimate, the source of sentience and the divine pneuma. The Type II hyperuniverse is mechanical and causal, and is the physical reality which we all live and die in.
The Shapers wish the connection of life to the Type I universe to be emphasized, thus their focus on patterns and living mortal humans. The N'zeer wish life to instead be linked solely to the Type II universe, and therefore they offer physical immortality and simulacra.
Typhoon Jim Yes, I too have noticed this. Software and Hardware. SoulMind and Body. And the glyph messages seem to confirm. Just the other day I got "all chaos inside body".
ReplyDelete