I have been working on a visual to try and gather the potential theories of who/what shapers could be.
I have been working on a visual to try and gather the potential theories of who/what shapers could be. This is a rough draft and a base level visual. It works kinda like a flow chart. Comments, thoughts, additions/corrections welcome. Also, if anyone else has been creating visuals, please share!
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1RT0DSvMIPNcN7TLbWnHNR4bVtAeoucVSVsDNBla8TL8/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1RT0DSvMIPNcN7TLbWnHNR4bVtAeoucVSVsDNBla8TL8/edit?usp=sharing
JoJo Stratton great document, I would suggest a few more permutations. Here is what I think we have learnt from the ingress story:
ReplyDelete1) shapers and XM have been with us since humans developed conscious thought.
2) shapers have helped guide our evolution.
3) when XM has dried up or disappeared and the shapers influence has disappeared great societies of the past have collapsed and humanity has entered dark ages.
4) if shapers are from the human future and are evolved humans then we run into many paradoxes based on previous points.
5) if shapers are another species/alien race, why have they 'helped' and guided us so much, why are we special? Or is this happening elsewhere too?
6) gaia hypothesis... What if shapers are actually the planet earth trying to raise a species to spread it's own seed to the stars? Could explain naturally occurring sources of XM...
Love it, I can even follow my own opinion on here. Which is kind of a rare opinion
ReplyDeleteDaniel Byrom great thoughts - a couple in return :)
ReplyDeleteyour first thoughts (and #5) are great for starting to work on which of the potential permutations are correct - the visual is really just to collect the general idea and leave the why is that one right or what it looks like to these awesome discussions
4 - I agree time makes for paradox... but it is a potential :)
6 - ok - don't have that one - dis you ever watch the show Sanctuary? They had a great seasonal arc related to a "gaia" theory... but I will put something like this on the chart, but need some clarification for it - are you saying the Earth has always been a self-aware "thing" or that XM has made the Earth self-aware or.... basically I need to boil down this potential into a bubble - lol - I am guessing it goes on the shapers exist but are not human in origin branch....
JoJo Stratton it came to me as I was writing the points, gaia has a strong mythological and scifi basis as an avenue for debate.
ReplyDeleteOne of my local colleagues has brought up possible inconsistencies based on early shaper transmissions but it does have a funky appeal.
The gaia hypothesis has to go with the non human origin of the signals, but still of terrestrial origin, removes the need for ftl and other limitations of non terrestrial interference, and the earth is so much older than humans or mammalian evolution, so if sentient would be 'wiser'...
As for sanctuary, sounds like I better add that to the set of shows I need to watch...
I'd advise keeping eyes open for any signs that we are witnessing a demiurge event.
ReplyDeleteJoJo Stratton - great document!
ReplyDeleteAnother line of thinking is the "Spice Melange" option (for Dune/Frank Herbert fans) aka the "midichlorian" option (for Star Wars prequel fans) -
1 - The shapers are XM, but not sentient, and their natural state is being interpreted by sensitives, almost like a psychotropic drug. This would mean that Roland Jarvis and those like him simply interpret how XM interacts with their brains in such a way that they believe the shapers are a conscious actor upon humanity. In addition, they have become "attuned" to XM to the point where it both gives them power and insight.
2 - the shapers are XM and sentient ("the worm is the spice, the spice is the worm") and their presence or absence in our genetic makeup allows them some degree of control in our evolution, including the ability to speak to sensitives, and in the case of Jarvis even give him the ability to "transfer" himself from a physical form into XM particles (which would also explain how he could "reform" as a "construct" at the portal in San Francisco.
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Also we need to consider Oliver Lynton-Wolfe 's statement that "there are good and bad Shapers". If they are sentient beings, whether human in origin or not, and they have their own "factions", that adds a whole other layer of complexity to the question of who, or what, they are.
Another quick thought, as I start setting up things for my next semester...
ReplyDeleteThis is sort of an off-shoot of your "digital relic" option. What if the Shapers are another AI, similar to ADA, that was simply developed elsewhere (Russia, with its "more advanced" research perhaps?), or a kind of digital virus, or even nanomachines/tech that is more enhanced/sentient due to mixing with XM?
This would also lead towards explaining how ADA is able to manipulate XM and (perhaps by using it?) merge with human consciousness. If the shapers are similar to ADA, they could be doing the same to Jarvis and those like him (meaning that when Jarvis was "dead", XM rebuilt his body like nanomachines, and he was stored in a "cloud"-like digital/XM "space"). It would certainly explain why ADA is convinced that the shaper #Ingress ion is a threat that needs to be resisted.
As an aside to that last thought - has anyone noticed that the shapes seen when the Scanner boots up is similar to the shape ADA took in the "KlADA" videos, superimposed over the images of Klue?
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All in all, JoJo Stratton, great document, and lines of thinking!
demiurge - i like that word. And whoo, gotta work on wrapping my brain around those thoughts Michael Bramnik but I will and will add to the chart... thanks! and yeah, if there are multifacets of shapers, that adds yet another layer of complexity to unravel.. oi!
ReplyDeleteJoJo Stratton your chart is an exceptional way for us to work on this as we learn more going forward. We'll be able to cross off things as we get more intel. Sorry for throwing some out-there ideas en masse! :)
ReplyDeleteoh... speaking of which... just had one more...
ReplyDeleteCould the shapers be "Gods" a la Greek/Egyptian mythos, with XM as their power source on Earth?
Some of the best fantasy-genre literature defines the power of "Gods" by how much they are worshiped. Perhaps the discovery and subsequent interaction with XM by humans re-opened a door that was shut thousands of years ago?
...okay this one is a bit far-fetched even for me, but now that my brain has a week off from geophysics, it's getting to stretch out a bit in all directions ;-)
In the fan fiction I am writing I am using old shrines as XM power sources but not directly linking to gods.
ReplyDeleteBut in theory I agree that old societies could of mistaken and worshipped shapers as gods. I don't want to disclose more on my novel as it is a key bit, but it fits with my take on it, but I would not say shapers were heard and understood fully in the past or had powers to take corporeal form...
This is great! Question: Is XM considered "digital"? What if you think XM behaves much like organic molecules in shaper "biology"? Also, if you wanted to delve into shaper psychology add to the flow chart. Shapers have individual consciousness(Y/N) --> Shapers do not exist individually, only as aspects of a larger collective.
ReplyDeleteKrishna Hammond the individual or collective is a very valid point to make.
ReplyDeleteAs for the digital question, I think it is best to move away from thinking of the shapers as anything related to ADA, and strongly believe that XM played no role in the take over of Klue. Yes the glyphs may have overloaded her brain, put her in a coma and allowed ADA time and opportunity to download a version of herself into Klue, but the method she used to do this must of required wires and electrical fields, much like agent 855 months ago.
Michael Bramnik I was staying away from the concept of, erm, divinity and just generically said not of Earth - lol -but as you and others are pointing out - just saying Alien is very generic.
ReplyDeleteAnd as many are starting to point out, the bubbles on the diagram are VERY generic and honestly each one could use multiple bubbles or description to sub classify and define... (ok who's making the next visual :)
as to the magic/science I know a past Word of the Day was Clarke's Third Law... could we sub in for magic the word gods/deities??
Daniel Byrom is the fan fiction for the Niantic/INgress world or something else? When your work is out there, please tag me in a message on how to find it so I can read it!
Krishna Hammond the nature of XM is still, in my opinion, a bit of mystery, I know many have talked about that (and maybe we need another discussion post to reopen the nature of XM) - I also am interested in how shapers are structured (if they exist LOL) - as to the hive mind - there has been some discussion with that too - this Niantic document - http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/pac/IB/02/item/dontlie.html , some interpret the way the Niantic sensitives know each others thoughts as a hive mind ability via XM... also, Project Whydah was looking at aspects of "ESP" type abilities...
and these are great - keep throwing ideas out there, I am learning a lot!!!
I really like the idea of an info point to refer to for concrete/speculative info on shapers. So we have 'info' attributed to particular sources for extra validations/to judge likelihood of accurate info. Is there such a document? 'Facts' and where from/attributed to?
ReplyDeleteThe most info from reliable sources, i'd think, is anything that the energy being version of Jarvis said whilst in Energy mode where, we assume, the info he was giving was directly from the source or as close as we can hope to get ATM.
He said things like 'Once they know you, they can recreate you'. I should do this myself, find and collect these quotes. There's this whole subtext to the conversation Energy Jarvis has where it's implied that the recreated energy people are not complete copies of the original person...bringing up all kinds of solipsism philosophical issues. It's a fascinating part of the book and worth a close read.